I am so excited for today’s guest, Canada’s Punk Rock Queen Bif Naked! I have been a fan of hers since her 1996 self-titled debut album and the follow up I Bificus with the hits “Daddy’s Getting Married,” “Spaceman” and “Moment of Weakness.” In 2001 her album Purge produced by Desmond Child had even more hits including “I Love Myself Today,” “Chokin on the Truth” and one of my favourites “Tango Shoes.” The albums and tours continued and in 2011 she released BIF NAKED FOREVER: Acoustic Hits and Other Delights and in 2016 she released her autobiography I Bificus.

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TRANSCRIPT:

Hello and welcome to episode 29 of Sing! Dance! Act! Thrive!

I am so excited for today’s guest, Canada’s Punk Rock Queen Bif Naked! I have been a fan of hers since her 1996 self-titled debut album and the follow up I Bificus with the hits “Daddy’s Getting Married,” “Spaceman” and “Moment of Weakness.” In 2001 her album Purge produced by Desmond Child had even more hits including “I Love Myself Today,” “Chokin on the Truth” and one of my favourites “Tango Shoes.” The albums and tours continued and in 2011 she released BIF NAKED FOREVER: Acoustic Hits and Other Delights and in 2016 she released her autobiography I Bificus.

In the book, she shares her journey from being born in secret to a teenager living in India, the product of a Canadian girl and a British boy. She was rejected by both families, hidden away in a mental hospital and adopted by missionaries and then moved to North America. She began what she recalls with ironic humour as a “charmed life.” Targeted by girl gangs and facing other abusive situations, she escaped this early life by joining a punk rock band and leaving on tour, where she married the drummer and hit a downward spiral that found her on the floor of a Vancouver drug den.

Through it all, her creative personality and unstoppable humour were her weapons of self-defence. Bif showcased her life’s journey in tattoo ink across her body and, with her unique ability to transform her true life stories into song lyrics, she found her voice as a solo artist, started her own record company and at twenty-three years of age became an international recording artist.

Throughout her remarkable career, armed with her singular talent and instantly identifiable look, Bif would captivate the imagination of audiences and media alike, releasing nine albums and twenty-one videos. She embarked on seemingly endless international tours, several feature films and multiple television roles, only to be struck down with breast cancer at the age of 37. Bif would discover her passion for advocacy, as a triumphant survivor and someone who helps others first.

When I started this podcast she was on my wish list of people I wanted on so when I got the opportunity I jumped at it.  She now lives in Toronto so her publicist Eric Alper asked if I wanted to go to her house for the interview.  Um, yes, yes I would like that very much. Lol. I love her.  So, of course, she was fabulous and we are best friends now so I know that you will enjoy our lovely conversation.

[+4min to timestamps] Diane Foy 0:00
Hello.

Bif Naked 0:00
Hello, hello.

Diane Foy 0:01
Welcome.

Bif Naked 0:03
Thank you.

Diane Foy 0:03
Thanks for joining me today.

Bif Naked 0:04
Oh, this is exciting. I have been looking forward to it.

Diane Foy 0:07
Cool. So what are you working on these days?

Bif Naked 0:10
Well, I do not know, like a lot of people, I guess I do a lot of different things. So we started making a new record last fall and then kind of finished it up, finish our recording in the spring and we have been doing mixes and everything all summer long. And so we are getting ready to drop a single as it is commonly called. And it is exciting. I really like the new songs there. Hopefully an evolution from the last stuff that I was writing. So that is really something that we have been looking forward to for a really long time. I have been writing a book about cancer for three years. Mostly I want to stab my eyes out with Bic pens. Anyone knows what Bic pen is, it is not pleasant to stab in your eye, but I took a break from it because I was just getting kind of lost in the weeds. I call it I just get just kind of lost in the research. I am not a researcher. So then when I got bored, I decided I should write a book of poetry, which I finished in June. And so just been assembling that and hoping we went for pitches this week. So, okay, yes, it is exciting.

Diane Foy 1:11
So when you do a book of poetry, do you collect from things you have written over the years or did you start from scratch?

Bif Naked 1:32
Yes, some of them were and, you know, I was kind of like, I was fine with it because I think basically, poetry is actually garbage. You know, in the world, anyone can put out a book of poetry.

Diane Foy 1:45
Right.

Bif Naked 1:45
These days, you can self publish. Your poetry can be just absolutely, like, just shy. It can be lousy and, but it is poetry to you, or it is poetry to the reader who likes it because it is almost like, in a way, it is a bit abstract.

Diane Foy 1:59
Right.

Bif Naked 2:01
So I was kind of good about it until we sent it out. And of course, then I am horrified now horrified because I think it is too edgy. You cannot write poems about lakes of blood you cannot really you know, these things will upset people. So I have been second-guessing it for a week, but that is just you know, the regular fear-based stuff that most artists have when they put their selves out into the world.

Diane Foy 2:28
Yeah, yeah. Well, you already put yourself out there with the book.

Bif Naked 2:32
Yeah.

Diane Foy 2:32
Why are you kind of put everything out there than in your songwriting? So,

Bif Naked 2:36
Yeah, definitely.

Diane Foy 2:37
It is a similar thing with poetry.

Bif Naked 2:39
Yeah, it must be. I guess I have just never really done it before. I had a spoken word record that came out in 19. I am going to guess, I am going to say 97. And it was just again, it was just garbage. But it made me laugh, and all my friends laugh and I think I do not even know if it ever sold any copies. You know, it was in the 90s, it was not that well received and I just had I did not care. I was still not self-aware did not care loved it anyway, still laugh every time I listened to it without any self-consciousness. But yeah, the poetry stuff is really kind of emotional and it is a bit vulnerable. So and also I am older, I am in a different place in my life. So I find that that is brought with it a lot of different I guess feelings surrounding my work.

Diane Foy 3:33
Right. So what first drew you to performing in music?

Bif Naked 3:38
You know, I was an arts kid, that my parents put me in arts festivals when I was little so spoken poetry, spoken French poetry, piano recitals, and then, I started ballet when I was probably about four. And that was it. You know, I had a ballet instructor I think in my first or second year that was a goddess. She may as well have just been like she was an angel. And I just wanted to be a ballerina. That is all I wanted to be up until I was probably 17 and old enough to smoke cigarettes and get tattoos and wear leather jackets.

Diane Foy 4:21
All the things that ballerinas are not supposed to…

Bif Naked 4:23
It is terrible, awful little rebel. And I really accidentally fell into music. I was in theater and in drama courses in high school and I thought that I wanted to be in musical theatre for sure because they had a dance aspect and I went to high school in Winnipeg, University of Winnipeg had a great theater program. They have a program there called the prairie theater exchange, which had a musical theatre program and I was going for that and just kind of basically met these guys who had a band. And literally it was that simple.

Diane Foy 4:57
Did you sing growing up?

Bif Naked 4:59
Never.

Diane Foy 4:59
Never.

Bif Naked 5:00
Not a note, not a note, I mean I am an alto you know, like my speaking voice, but I think in the first band I was in was kind of like a punk band so, you know, honestly, it did not take a lot of skill, you know, so I could kind of wing it. And over time, it just, I was just really I found that it was a vehicle for my writing. It was a vehicle for poetry, to turn it into lyrics, and it was a great fit for me. I loved it. I do not think it is for everyone and touring, certainly in the 90s was not for the faint of heart. But I am glad that, that is all I have ever done.

Diane Foy 5:37
Yeah, yeah. What drew you to punk music?

Bif Naked 5:41
The boys, you know? yes. And it was a good fit for me. I mean, a lot of their content, song content, was really political, and it was a lot of protest music. And that was something that resonated with me anyway. It just kind of like, you know, my parents were socialists and they were civil rights activists in the states and all social justice things always appealed to me a lot. So it was a really good fit.

Diane Foy 6:14
Right. okay. And so who are some of the bands that you first started touring with or that inspired you?

Bif Naked 6:21
I think when I was very young, I was into all the bands that I started playing with more than anything else. So I was into, thank you, because I had bad mic technique after all these years. I was into bands like DOA was one of the first bands that we ever opened for.

Diane Foy 6:41
And worked with you.

Bif Naked 6:42
Oh cool. And so yeah, Joe Keys Lee, who was the singer then and is now Joey Shithead as he is known, was a real, you know, probably unbeknownst to him was just a huge influence on me. I just thought, you know, his, his stuff was just so political and it was so smart and I agreed with everything he said. And he was just so confident he just stood up there and he just played the guitar and sang. And then we toured with a band called The Wong’s, that featured Chi Pig from SNFU. And so, being on tour, my first tour really influenced me more than anything else because I was faced with you know, the daunting road and losing your voice as a vocalist and having to deal with a lot of animosity from the audience that really just wanted to see Chai pig and The Wong’s, they did not really want me in front of them. I was a girl A and B it was just all you know, show us your tits or back then, you know, we did not care we just like fought them or you know, we are more aggressive. Now. Of course, in this day and age, you know the show gets stopped. If anyone says anything like that. I would not stop my show personally because You know, I consider myself a little more resilient than that. But things have changed a lot since I first started.

Diane Foy 8:07
Yeah, and how was your music changed over the years?

Bif Naked 8:11
Well, hopefully, it has evolved, the sound has evolved as I have kind of grown-up. I kind of turned into a solo artist after I left my first two bands. And now because I am a lyricist, I never played an instrument. So I have always co-written with everybody, whether it is, you know, four people in my band, or whether it was with one guy who was the producer, and my first record was produced by a guy named John Dexter, who at the time had plum records. And Johnny Jett records was his original label name. And he had bands like the West End girls, you know, it was like a lot of pop stuff. And so for him to sit down and co-write with Bif Naked, was it a really great opportunity for me because I could kind of do just about anything and so we really crossed, I guess cross genres on the first record, and it was really eclectic. It was detrimental in a way because I could not get a record deal. And it was 24 at all. No one knew what to do with me. And in Canada, they were like, yeah, this chick will never get on the radio. So my manager just said, Yeah, you just, were going to start your own record company. Because Yeah, you do not know these. These guys will sign you these days.

Diane Foy 9:24
In these days are kind of what you have to do anyway.

Bif Naked 9:27
Yeah, it is pretty funny. I mean, you know, having the company since 94. I mean, I have seen it all. You know, I have kind of, we have put out other bands also and that is its own blessing. But it is also quite a curse. Because, you know, it really depends on who you work with. But what it did do is enable me to just keep me putting my records out and keeping them as eclectic as I wanted them to be having that creative control. And, you know, I do not understand these artists today. Like I have always owned my masters, you know, and now it does not matter. You know in a way they are kind of worthless, so I do not really know why.

Diane Foy 10:00
Maybe for like licensing maybe?

Bif Naked 10:00
I guess so, I mean, we have always licensed our record. So in every country, so it is just, you know, it should be easier than I think a lot of artists make it. And, you know, I am from the generation that still works on a handshake half the time. And it is just so much fun. It is still such a challenge, but it is still really rewarding.

Diane Foy 10:34
Yeah. As having your own label, when things changed and went towards downloading and streaming, were you a company that embraced that or fought against it like most of the major labels?

Bif Naked 10:49
Well because we are always [ indie ], it did not really affect us to be honest with you. Anything that would allow people to discover us more easily was a good thing.

Diane Foy 11:00
Yeah.

Bif Naked 11:00
But also like, you know, people forget well, especially young people because they were not around. But Napster started affecting everybody in like, the mid-90s.

Diane Foy 11:10
Yeah.

Bif Naked 11:11
So it is something that we have always kind of had to face and we had to face it and, you know, adapt all along. We have had to just adapt and carry on. So, things have changed a lot since I first started and now yeah, now you cannot sell CDs at shows. You know, really, no one has a CD player.

Diane Foy 11:32
No one really wants them.

Bif Naked 11:33
They do not, and they do not understand why you would sell them. So I have to call them car CDs.

Diane Foy 11:38
Yeah.

Bif Naked 11:39
Basically, and sign them, you know, but they are still not really worth anything.

Diane Foy 11:43
Yeah.

Bif Naked 11:44
And in hindsight, I think, well, God, you know, it is not like they biodegrade you know, so I do not really want to make anymore anyway, because what am I really that cool. Why am I going to make this thing in a plastic case? You know, like,

Diane Foy 11:57
Yeah.

Bif Naked 11:58
So it is just, things have changed a lot in that way.

Diane Foy 12:02
Yeah, I missed the physical part of it. And yes, I just thought of it the other day that I miss reading credits.

Bif Naked 12:08
Yes. I loved writing them.

Diane Foy 12:10
Yeah, because that would be my thing I did first thing you do before even get to listen.

Bif Naked 12:15
That is right.

Diane Foy 12:16
I would, it got me to know the songwriters when names came up over and over again.

Bif Naked 12:21
Yes.

Diane Foy 12:22
You know if there is liner notes.

Bif Naked 12:24
Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Diane Foy 12:27
All that, and now it is like, you cannot even see it. [ Like, you know, that’s why I’m like, Yeah, that’s it. That’s the credit. So yeah ]

Bif Naked 12:35
Yeah, it is different. It is definitely different. And that tactile thing is really great. And yeah, writing liner notes was, you know, also part of, you know, a person’s art and a part of the artists’ message.

Diane Foy 12:40
Yeah.

Bif Naked 12:49
So in a way, that is sad, but now they get to write liner notes every day, you know,

Diane Foy 12:55
On social media.

Bif Naked 12:56
On Instagram. That is right.

Diane Foy 12:57
Yeah. Do you love social media?

Bif Naked 12:59
Yeah, you know, I think it is really great. Yeah, I have never really understood why it is negative. You know, a lot of people kind of think it’s super negative. I have always found it absolutely fun and funny. Because you cannot take it that seriously.

Diane Foy 13:19
Yeah.

Bif Naked 13:19
You know, there is a lot of people who take it very seriously who get into arguments and all this stuff. And I just, I just kind of have never been that person. It is just that would stress me out. I would never argue with anybody. So they all, all right, no prob and, you know, shut your computer off. It is so easy.

Diane Foy 13:39
Yeah.

Bif Naked 13:39
But I really enjoy it. I think it is a great way for bands to tell fans where they are playing and tell the fans you know, what is important to them. It is a great way to use your social media platform to help you know, lesser bands, lesser-known bands, help charities, you know, stuff like that and of course to help animals, rescues, which I like doing. So it is like, yeah, I think it is really fantastic. You know, we live in amazing times.

Diane Foy 14:08
Yeah, I do find I am always surprised when I work with artists that are reluctant to even do social media.

Bif Naked 14:16
Yes. I was like that a lot.

Diane Foy 14:18
I am like, but you are young. Right?

Bif Naked 14:21
Yeah.

Diane Foy 14:22
Like you are texting.

Bif Naked 14:23
Yeah.

Diane Foy 14:24
Don’t you text? It is the same thing. And it is also like, well, if this is what you want to do for a living.

Bif Naked 14:30
Yes.

Diane Foy 14:31
If you do not want to be,

Bif Naked 14:33
That is right.

Diane Foy 14:33
[ Words and all that for but you kind of have ] to and it is just, I always just relate it to, you know, I am working at putting myself out there more too.

Bif Naked 14:44
Sure. Yeah.

Diane Foy 14:45
We got to do it.

Bif Naked 14:46
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it is interesting. And there is a lot of people who are able to make a living by offering to do social media for other people.

Diane Foy 14:55
Yeah.

Bif Naked 14:56
Which is its own industry now. was really is fascinating and it is a real.

Diane Foy 15:01
Have you ever done that? Had someone else work your social media?

Bif Naked 15:03
Never. And it is just like, you know when I think that I remember being on my space a little bit, I did not get a computer until I think it was 2006.

Diane Foy 15:15
Wow.

Bif Naked Photo by Diane FoyBif Naked 15:15
So I was not that savvy, certainly, at my space, I can barely remember it. But there used to be able to have conversations with fans periodically, I believe. And then I remember the year Twitter came out as someone from our record company, basically installed Twitter on my Blackberry, I had a blackberry at the time, no computer, and they said, you have to do Twitter and I was like a gasp like I could not believe what are you talking about? Like, what do you mean, I have to do this? What do I do?

Diane Foy 15:48
Yeah.

Bif Naked 15:48
And they are like texting and I was like, I do not text, I do not understand. And so in the beginning, I mean you know, I said, do like yoga on Twitter, like raise your arms over your head and then the next tweet would be take a breath and hold it in like literally did not know what I was doing. And it was so funny because at the time I was going to breast cancer treatment. So this is like 2009. So I had done on my chemo already. I had just finished radiation. I think it was getting it over to me. I was still involved in the cancer hospital a lot with volunteering and going to an exercise group that was all breast cancer patients. So I would always refer to this every time I attended it, and I would wind up putting that out. And that is really slowly how I kind of built a following that had nothing to do with music.

Diane Foy 16:41
Yeah.

Bif Naked 16:41
And I mean, I remember being on Twitter and having like 300 followers or 5000 followers, like, you know, it was a long time ago. It was a decade ago.

Diane Foy 16:52
Yeah.

Bif Naked 16:53
It takes a long time, but you just kind of have to like keep doing it and does not matter if anyone music nobody is listening. That does not matter.

Diane Foy 17:02
Yeah.

Bif Naked 17:03
You just have to do it anyway.

Diane Foy 17:04
It is such a great way to connect.

Bif Naked 17:06
Yes, it is.

Diane Foy 17:06
It is like no barrier now between artists.

Bif Naked 17:09
That is right.

Diane Foy 17:10
General public and their fans.

Bif Naked 17:11
Absolutely.

Diane Foy 17:12
The cool thing about Twitter, sometimes a famous person will tweet you back.

Bif Naked 17:16
Yeah, that is right. Like, yes, I found that as well. And with Twitter, particularly a lot of people I know who are on Instagram or who did not really get on social media until Instagram was developed. They are not on twitter at all. And they do not like it. And they find it like, I do not know, something like obscene about it. I always say the audiences are very different.

Diane Foy 17:38
Yeah.

Bif Naked 17:39
And they find the same thing is true on Facebook when I did the welfare food challenge in Vancouver. Just to help out a couple organizations. All of the negative comments I got always were on Facebook.

Diane Foy 17:54
Yeah.

Bif Naked 17:54
And nowhere else. And I mean, there may have been a smattering, but you on Facebook, I find if I post that I repost a dog, charity. Literally, I might get literally, I might get maybe 20 likes on something like that. And no comments. If I post the show, I might get a couple comments. But when I did the welfare food challenge, I got 400 comments, all of them negative. And they were all about the poor. And they were all bashing the poor. And it was so revealing to me. I thought I could not believe it.

Diane Foy 18:33
Because Twitter is so in people’s faces, but it is also there is no word limit.

Bif Naked 18:39
I guess so. It was just astonishing. And I just, I remember just like, you know, as we are wanting to do we talk to our computer screen. And I remember just being incredulous just going I can see your name like how can your neighbors can see that you have said this terrible thing, you know, and it would not even it was just like, it was astonishing.

Diane Foy 19:05
It baffles my mind but I guess I think that they must just not they must be okay with what they are saying.

Bif Naked 19:13
Precisely, absolutely. Yeah and I find the same thing is true for anything political in any way and social justice or doing anything you know for the benefit of the poor or you know, the people on social assistance in this society. It always just attract a lot of hate mail it is what I call it and that really is very telling about the world we live in.

Diane Foy 19:43
Yeah.

Bif Naked 19:44
It just blows my mind.

Diane Foy 19:45
Have you ever got negative comments about your music? You?

Bif Naked 19:49
All the time, all the time. Lots of the time I cannot help it because I am on there.

Diane Foy 19:56
Yeah.

Bif Naked 19:57
But back in the day it was usually like, someone would write into the magazine with their comments or to the newspaper we are in. And I still to this day, still to this day, 20 years later, I still remember these two girls from I think it was, yeah, that was in Chicago. We were playing at the House of Blues, I believe. And they were just, they hated my liner notes. Literally, it was about my liner notes and the cartoons that I always do. And they were just on and on. They had written into a radio station that I was doing an interview on, and they were just terrible. They were like this is she is just a loser, and she still does self deprecating, and we are feminist and she is not feminist. She is just self deprecating. It was just, it was stupid. It was actually insipid what they were saying they were.

Diane Foy 20:49
Yeah.

Bif Naked 20:49
You know, a couple of, you know, privileged college girls or whatever my imagination tells me that they were and it still bothers me. And I am like, why does this even bother me, you know, but it still does. It is so funny. Because again, they were just, they are entitled to their feelings. That must be they really are.

Diane Foy 21:12
I am always like, well, is not there bigger things in the world?

Bif Naked 21:15
Precisely.Yes, there are. Yes.

Diane Foy 21:18
then that chick that wrote something in the liner notes.

Bif Naked 21:22
Yeah, it is so funny.

Diane Foy 21:24
Wow.

Bif Naked 21:25
I am sure that everyone feels that way. I mean, when you talk to any artists of any caliber at all, they are always going to remember those. Those things because ultimately, we are all eight years old.

Diane Foy 21:39
Yeah.

Bif Naked 21:39
And something that hurts our feelings still hurts our feelings regardless of how mature we are. You know how far advanced in our age or our careers, it does not matter.

Diane Foy 21:51
Yeah, it still hurts.

Bif Naked 21:53
Sure.

Diane Foy 21:54
So you have had the same manager for 30 years?

Bif Naked 21:57
Yes, I have.

Diane Foy 21:58
And how has that relationship maintained, like how have you managed to have a good relationship after all these years?

Bif Naked 22:06
Well, you know, I knew a lot of other artists who have been in the business, you know, 20 years, 25 years. Many of them are hugely successful people. Some of them have had five managers over the trajectory of their career or 10. And you know, I always marvel at that, I think, in many situations is probably very warranted. For me, you know, the priority for me has always been the same things I just wanted to work hard and, and have hard work, you know, to work at. When Peter started managing me, I was in a band called Chrome Dog and he originally approached Chrome Dog to manage us and at the time he was managing and I later and rhymes with orange in Canada and a couple other artists as well. And so he managed Chrome Dog. And of course, you know, it was a volatile relationship. I guess things happen with bands and bands breakup, rightly or wrongly. And so we did break up and then I was horrified because I thought, well, that is it, I have to go back to university. Now, you know, my career is over. I am done. I think it was 22 at the time, and it was not too late for me to you know, reapply for my, you know, what Fine Arts degree or whatever I thought I could do. And Peter just kind of was really calm. And he said, well, you know, take a couple of days that to really think about it, but I think you should be a solo artist. And I think that you can do that you are, you know, if you want to do that, I think that is what we should do. So, you know, get back to me in a couple of days. Really think about it, talk to your parents or whoever you know you have talk to run it up the flagpole, you know, of your people. And, and it was no question. I was just like, I have 100% faith in you. And that was it. And I thought at that moment, I just thought I can either have faith in this person to do their job because I know that I am going to do mine. Or I can be wishy-washy about it. And, you know, kind of always be kind of, like suspicious or always keep looking for, you know, a better opportunity or whatever people mislead themselves into thinking that they are going to find maybe they do, but I just made that commitment early on. And I you know, I am a notorious non-confrontational anyway, everybody knows it. Except on stage, of course. But it is just as always worked out, you know, and our relationship has changed a lot over the years. You know, it has been, you know, some years have been really kind of weird, and some years have been just so much work that nobody could see straight. And, you know, at the end of the day, you know, his, you know, his daughters are my goddaughters.

Diane Foy 25:10
Yeah.

Bif Naked 25:11
You know, and I hit. I am friends with all the wives he has had. You know, it is just like, it is funny. And when I married Snake in 2016, Peter gave me away at my wedding.

Diane Foy 25:23
Yeah.

Bif Naked 25:24
You know, because my father has passed away. And really, that is kind of the role that he has in my life.

Diane Foy 25:28
Right. And so you said you were starting to manage artists yourself?

Bif Naked Photo by Diane Foy

Bif Naked 25:34
Well, you know, suddenly, yeah, I know, I have never really thought about it before this year. But since I moved to Toronto, you know, I just think that as I get older, I kind of think, you know, am I going to want to be the one on tour all the time, or am I going to want to mentor younger acts and younger bands and I have been a tour manager for a long time. I have always tried to manage my own band. And it is something that is very natural for me. Just having all the experience that I do. So I think that yeah, management is definitely the direction I want to go in you know, eventually,

Diane Foy 26:13
Right.

Bif Naked 26:14
As a full time thing.

Diane Foy 26:16
And what kind of artists would you be looking for?

Bif Naked 26:18
Anything.

Diane Foy 26:19
Yeah.

Bif Naked 26:19
The ones that are honest and work hard and yeah, artists, I mean, even when we had her majesty’s records in full swing, where we were signing other acts, you know, ultimately, I could always take these acts on tour with me and it would always became the vehicle for those acts to be launched. And it was a great way to launch bands. Ultimately, it was, you know, you always run across people who are disappointing in some regard or manner, where they, you know, they signed a contract with you, but they want to break it if you do not you know, literally buy them a tour bus before they have ever recorded a note of music.

Diane Foy 27:06
Right.

Bif Naked 27:06
Or something as preposterous.

Diane Foy 27:08
So you have to manage expectations.

Bif Naked 27:09
Yeah. And that is something that and people are very yeah, some of these artists are, you know, they should really be insurance brokers are some other career, because they will never be happy as artists, so.

Diane Foy 27:23
[ I try to get across that is interested ] in the podcasts is that the work ethic that it takes.

Bif Naked 27:28
That is right.

Diane Foy 27:29
And yeah, the expectations.

Bif Naked 27:31
It is really hard and it is hard for an artist to have a supportive partner and supportive friends just totally get it and, you know, understand that it is always going to be a pendulum. It is always going to be just outrageously inconvenient, because it is a 24 hour a day job.

Diane Foy 27:51
Yeah.

Bif Naked 27:51
You know, ultimately, if you are an artist, you are your job.

Diane Foy 27:56
Yeah.

Bif Naked 27:57
And so you never get an opportunity to leave work at the office. And so that means it has to also enter your personal life and then that is a whole other can of worms and there is a lot of great artists who are high bashed, you know, it is not even that they will get out of their own way but other people will not.

Diane Foy 28:16
Right.

Bif Naked 28:17
And, it is just very disheartening to see that in a young artist you just want to protect them and, help them out and yeah, it is exciting though there is no money in it.

Diane Foy 28:29
No. Probably.

Bif Naked 28:31
But it is exciting.

Diane Foy 28:32
It is like you got to love it no matter what.

Bif Naked 28:34
Exactly.

Diane Foy 28:35
And you want to figure out other ways of making money.

Bif Naked 28:38
That is exactly right, yes to hopefully avoid crime.

Diane Foy 28:42
Avoid crime. But yeah, there are other ways of figuring out how to make a living or have your side job be something flexible.

Bif Naked 28:52
Exactly or something that you are also passionate about. Yeah.

Diane Foy 28:55
Yeah. So if you could go back to your younger self, what advice would you give?

Bif Naked 29:02
Oh, do not be so upset. I took everything very personally. I think that, you know, it was easy for me as a just kind of just a sensitive person to take things. Just hard. I took everything kind of really on the chin. And, you know, I have a friend now who is 27 and, and she is a painter and a writer. And she takes things very personally and it is hard for me to, you know, watch her be hurt all the time because I remember the feeling when I was 27 years old, I always felt persecuted.

Diane Foy 29:45
Yeah.

Bif Naked 29:45
You know, by whatever it was by boyfriends, or by my bandmates or by my girlfriends who just did not understand that I was only in town for a show day and I could not stop the soundcheck to go to dinner or whatever the case, you know, I think that being more just kind of easygoing and not getting rattled by anything would have served me very well.

Diane Foy 30:11
Yeah.

Bif Naked 30:12
Definitely.

Diane Foy 30:13
I learned that there is a thing called highly sensitive person.

Bif Naked 30:16
Interesting. Yes I think I was.

Diane Foy 30:20
Good stuff. And I have discovered that, that that is an actual thing the highly sensitive person.

Bif Naked 30:26
Yes.

Diane Foy 30:28
And I am that. You know, that is me.

Bif Naked 30:29
Yeah. I think that I think that a lot of artists can probably relate to that.

Diane Foy 30:34
Yeah. It even said, like a lot of artists are kind of known as being that because we put ourselves out there.

Bif Naked 30:41
That is right.

Diane Foy 30:42
And because especially if your art is an expression of yourself.

Bif Naked 30:47
That is right.

Diane Foy 30:48
So if people judge your art, like they are judging us.

Bif Naked 30:53
That is exactly correct. Yeah it is very tough. Not for everybody.

Diane Foy 30:56
No and you have to have thick skin and have a never give up attitude.

Bif Naked 31:02
That is right. And a great sense of humor.

Diane Foy 31:04
Yeah, that helps.

Bif Naked 31:05
Yes. You got to make fun of yourself.

Diane Foy 31:07
Yeah. So you did some acting? Is that something that you still are interested in? Or what?

Bif Naked 31:15
Yeah. You know.

Diane Foy 31:16
What brought you to that when you were in some shows and films?

Bif Naked 31:20
For me, I think because I was a drama kid. I always had that, I guess, you know, desire and curiosity. In me being a recording artist. I would often just the roles just always came across my managers desk, but they were always for singers. Or they were for strippers, or they were for junkies. It was like always the same, always the same, always the same. So I was never that interested in doing those. Because they thought that is a no brainer. Like, you know, it is not a stretch.

Diane Foy 31:58
Right.

Bif Naked 31:58
I wanted to do something that was a stretch. And the first feature film I did was where I got to play a hippie girl. And for me, I thought that was more of a stretch. And so it was called lunch with Charles. And in the film was just really the greatest casting crew. They were very nurturing. It was a great introduction into being on a film set. But it did not like it. I had two little dogs, and I could not bring them to set I had a Maltese that never stopped barking so he could not be on set. He could not be in the trailer. It would not work. And the whole time I was on set. I just wanted to be with my dog. So it did not the timing really was very difficult for me. And I did not have I just always felt guilty. I always wanted to be with a dog so it really took away. And then the second time we accepted a role was for an indie film called The Crossing where I got to play A drag King. And that was very interesting for me. So I wanted to do that role. I got weapons training, firearms training, I got to do martial arts, it was all the things that I was wanting to do. But again, I just wanted to be with the dog. So it film sets in me did not really work out when my dogs were still alive anyway. But yeah, and theater I think is probably a better fit for me anyway. But I like it all. You know, I think that any aspect of performing is going to definitely be something that resonates with what I like doing.

Diane Foy 33:38
Right. Right. Have you done theater?

Bif Naked 33:40
Not in a long time.

Diane Foy 33:42
Yeah.

Bif Naked 33:42
Yeah. Not in a long time. Certainly not since I have moved to Toronto.

Diane Foy 33:46
Yeah.

Bif Naked 33:47
Not yet.

Diane Foy 33:47
Not yet.

Bif Naked 33:48
No.

Diane Foy 33:49
Cool one woman show.

Bif Naked 33:50
Yeah. You never know.

Diane Foy 33:52
And you can do everything that you love to do.

Bif Naked 33:54
Exactly. well sneaking an acoustic show, which is what we had to develop around book readings, just because book readings just do not really pay.

Diane Foy 34:04
No.

Bif Naked 34:05
So we developed an acoustic show where I would read a story from the memoir, and then we will play the relevant song from the repertoire and it turned into a really fun three hour show. And he gets drink wine, and I get to abuse him on stage, and, and make fun of being married a lot of times and it is just really it became something that was almost in the end kind of became a bit of a play.

Diane Foy 34:31
Right.

Bif Naked 34:32
So that is something that was very enjoyable.

Diane Foy 34:35
And so when you are young and you are playing a lot of punk bands, I am guessing most of them were male bands, male crews on tour. And then you started touring with Lilith Fair. How was that transition? How was it different working with all women?

Bif Naked 34:52
Well, welfare was an amazing opportunity for me, especially at that time, it was 1999 and I think that we were going back and forth between touring with the cult in America and then doing the those period dates. And Sarah McLaughlin is such a warm and genuinely nice person. She was nice to every artist that was on our tour personally, thank everybody for, for doing her shows and, and really that experience for me was unlike anything I’ve ever been on. So I learned a lot from that. And it was kind of a bit of a sorority in a way. But you know, I always felt my sorority was the Luna chicks, and was l seven and was, you know, bands that were harder and more into what I was into, you know, kind of, so it was nice for me to meet all these women who were just like a genuinely nice people.

Diane Foy 35:57
Yeah.

Bif Naked 35:58
Definitely.

Diane Foy 35:59
That is amazing. And was I guess is the backstage environment different?

Bif Naked 36:04
Very much so I mean, you know, but also because I am a girl, you know, the backstage of the Bif Naked show is nothing like backstage at Motley Crue.

Diane Foy 36:14
Yeah.

Bif Naked 36:15
You know, there is not girls backstage at my shows, unless they are like 15 and want their record signed.

Diane Foy 36:22
Yeah.

Bif Naked 36:23
You know it. So I kind of was always exempt from that type of backstage environment anyway, except in the situations where we would be touring with all these guy bands. And then that was just always the debauchery. But I went to bed. You know, I was a, you know, as a lead vocalist. I could not drink alcohol. I could not talk after the show. I had to just basically go back to my prison.

Diane Foy 36:51
Yeah.

Bif Naked 36:51
Which was my bunk. A lot of times I brought my dogs on tour. So then I just would, you know, go and hang out with them for the rest of the night anyway, and so I did not, you know, I did not really get too much opportunity to participate in all the fun that I was missing out on, which was usually potato chips and drinking, you know, like, let us be honest, like, you know, the, the band has to travel so it is not like they could stay in the Four Seasons Hotel and have a party every night.

Diane Foy 37:24
What are some of the biggest lessons that you’ve learned along the way in performing and also with connecting with an audience?

Bif Naked 37:32
I think that I am still learning lessons all the time when it comes to performing. pacing yourself at a show is always something that you can learn only from experience. And that is usually hard because the first time you go out into your stage, the first five minutes of the show, you are flipping out, or at least I am, you know your heart is racing, you are over singing you are you know, the adrenaline is really pumping and then you can relax after that initial, you know, adrenaline, fear, shock, whatever passes, and you can relax. And I found that it is never really that different if there is 10 people in the crowd or if you are doing a festival in Germany where there is, you know, I do not know, 80,000 people, you cannot see them all.

Diane Foy 38:26
Yeah.

Bif Naked 38:26
You know, so it is not more scary to do a bigger audience. You know, if you have got an audience there that has all the suits, you know, that you are, you know, trying to impress with its record companies or, or management or whatever the case that tends to be more nerve-wracking, and it is hard to do a normal show. Or if you know, your parents are there, then you know, you are not going to like right the C word across your chest, you know, for that show or whatever you are doing, but yeah, I think the biggest lesson to learn is always pace yourself.

Diane Foy 39:04
Right. And what are some ways that you stay healthy and fit on tour?

Bif Naked 39:10
Well, you know, things have changed a lot for me. I think that for the first, I do not know, 15 years. Well, I do not know I think that I did not know I was anorexic until I was in breast cancer treatment. And that was the first time I was ever off the road in my adult life. So I did not really know any other way of touring except how he toured and in the 90s I mean, there was a lot of pressure on us. We were in half tops. I mean, you can I cannot use Gwen Stefani as an example anymore, because now she is a TV star. So that is a whole different life. But you know, a lot of us were in half tops, and it was like, Yeah, I was vegan anyway. But You know, turn is not easy and there is nothing to eat in the 90s for vegans, yeah so but you can eat rice, you know because you will just have like a rice baby, your belly and year and a half thought so that kind of psychological thing really wore me down and I did not even notice it for a long time I was a raw food vegan. And that was just because we just were in Eastern Europe so much. There was no vegan food really. So I would just eat a tomato or eat a banana or and that is kind of how that started. I think that I have always been into fitness and on tour our shows 90 minutes or more and it is just like being a jumping beam and singing. So I never found that I really went to gyms all that frequently. But when I was at home I always have always been a gym rat. All the guys I ever dated I met in the gym because that is the only place I ever went. I was either on tour in the dog park, or at the gym. But now you know, as I am older, I just find more of a balance. I always did yoga because it just kind of really calmed my mind. I never did it for fitness. And now I think it is more of a fitness thing for a lot of people which is fantastic. For me, it was just to calm my mind down and to kind of relax and find a balance from the stressful life that that job can be. I feel like I have got more of a balance now.

Diane Foy 41:38
Yeah, and if you go on tour you plan ahead, I guess with your meals?

Bif Naked 41:43
No, I just totally eat potato chips. Yeah, Doritos makes sweet chili heat is a vegan Doritos and I curse them because my band of course are eating like, you know all the delicious junk food that nobody eats it. home that we do not really eat like this at home as soon as we are doing shows, it is like, you know, all bets are off. So yeah, vegan now they have some new vegan snack foods. It is very sad for me. So I tend to eat a lot of like potato chips. I take protein shakes, like I will take vegan protein shakes, but generally I just kind of live on almonds and salads, even if it is a subway salad with mustard, It is kind of sad, but it is fun.

Diane Foy 42:32
Yeah. What are the biggest lessons you have learned as a creative entrepreneur?

Bif Naked 42:37
Wow, well, that is a whole other can of worms. I think that you either are an entrepreneur or you are not and basically what I mean by that is you are either willing to take a risk, or you are going to want to always play it safe, you know, and then this job is not for you. And, you know, to be able to just roll the dice And start a new company or trying by guess, you know, evolve or have your career morph and evolve. You know, if you work long enough in the business, whether it is the music business or the art world or the entertainment industry in any way, you get to do a lot of different things. Because there is lots of different things to do. And you have to really be have a have a level of fearlessness, you know, and just kind of hope for the best and it is like, it is like the song Livin’ on a Prayer. You know, you really just have to just, you are halfway there. You just have to keep going.

Diane Foy 43:40
Yeah.

Bif Naked 43:40
You know, do not stop momentum will carry you through, even if you know you are going to lose it or stumble. You just have to keep going.

Diane Foy 43:48
Yeah, and that is another thing that a lot of artists do not necessarily embrace when they like, Oh, I want to be a rock star.

Bif Naked 43:56
Right.

Diane Foy 43:56
But these days, you have to be an entrepreneur as well.

Bif Naked 43:59
Yes you do.

Diane Foy 44:00
You cannot just wait for that magic label or manager that is gonna make you a star.

Bif Naked 44:06
Yes. And you have to be prepared to never make a cent.

Diane Foy 44:09
Yeah.

Bif Naked 44:09
It is almost like writers used to be. You know, and now with, you know, there are no more no more Aerosmith style advances.

Diane Foy 44:21
Right.

Bif Naked 44:21
You know, for your record, you know, it is very difficult to now for an artist to get on the radio.

Diane Foy 44:28
Yeah.

Bif Naked 44:29
You know, and I think that is hard for people to understand because radio has changed, you know, Spotify, it is not just record sales, it is radio, you know, it has changed everything for artists and for how artists are valued, how they are embraced by the public. You know, it is really difficult, you have to be really kind of flexible.

Diane Foy 44:53
Yeah.

Bif Naked 44:53
And willing to try anything and everything.

Diane Foy 44:56
Yeah, moving to Toronto is a big step for you because you have been in Vancouver for so long. What did you come to Toronto?

Bif Naked 45:03
Work. Yeah, basically work and and that is really the truth. You know, all the book publishers are here. And why should not say that there is a lot of great publishers in Vancouver too. But at the time that we moved Harper Collins was my publisher, and why the record companies that we work with are out here, my manager moved out here. You know, it was just a good fit after Snake and I got married in 2016. He sold his newest apartment, I sold my Vancouver apartment, we wanted to get something together. And it just made sense to come here. Plus, it was 30% cheaper.

Diane Foy 45:40
Oh, yeah.

Bif Naked 45:41
It is a big deal.

Diane Foy 45:42
Yeah.

Bif Naked 45:43
Yeah.

Diane Foy 45:43
That is kind of the news in the last, I do not know, five years that

Bif Naked 45:47
Absolutely.

Diane Foy 45:48
Prices that are insane in Vancouver than in Toronto.

Bif Naked 45:51
Yes they are. Yeah, it is astonishing. It really is. But, you know, we have to be willing to do more with less.

Diane Foy 46:00
Yeah.

Bif Naked 46:00
And we have to be willing to, you know, just kind of, you know, be satisfied and take what we can get and, live in smaller places.

Diane Foy 46:11
Yeah.

Bif Naked 46:11
You know, in neighborhoods that make us feel happy and say that is all.

Diane Foy 46:18
I am surprised you do not have a dog.

Bif Naked 46:19
Not yet. No. My last little guy passed away. Almost 30 days before I met Snake. So when my dog died, my dad was just going into palliative care. And my dog was sick for a couple of years. So it was in a way like a lot of pet owners I know can relate to this. You know, when you have got a sick animal for so long. In a way there is a you know, you are relieved because they are not suffering anymore. But also for me, it gave me the freedom. Suddenly I had this freedom to go stay with my dad and his wife for a month. You know?And you know, my manager and his wife were living in France at the time I went straight to France after that, and it was, you know, suddenly that worry was not there anymore. I could go on tour do Snake and I did two national acoustic tours. And then we were getting ready to move. So it was like, we do not want to, we do not want to get a dog. Right. And so then we came here, and then we are straight on tour when we arrived. And yeah, just so far, it has not happened.

Diane Foy 47:27
Yeah.

Bif Naked 47:27
I have a girlfriend who just had lost another dog. She always she and her partner always rescue these amazing seniors. And, and she is the this is why it has been so hard for you, you know, to replace Nick basically. And I had never really thought about it before. And I went, Oh, yeah, kind of I kind of is, you know, I think that I do procrastinate a lot about rescuing a dog. But I think it is still because I am still like, I still cannot get past it.

Diane Foy 48:03
Yeah.

Bif Naked 48:04
Yeah, but I am able to go in and do lots of you know visits and sanctuary stuff and yeah, I just and plus cats I might, you know, I keep teasing snake because I said you said that when we got married we will get two cats. So there is a lot of cats that need home.

Diane Foy 48:23
Yeah. I get that. So when I lost my cats, they were there was that couple months of like, freedom. So I went to visit my mom for a month.

Bif Naked 48:32
Exactly.

Diane Foy 48:33
Like usually I had have to limit that

Bif Naked 48:35
of course of course.

Diane Foy 48:37
Go for a month but then you are kind of gun shy. I was kind of gun shy because I had my one cat for almost 19 years.

Bif Naked 48:44
Amazing.

Bif Naked Photo by Diane Foy

Diane Foy 48:45
And I was just like, even though I am back with three cats, I am like, I still kind of you start kind of thinking like, Am I going to have them for a long time?

Bif Naked 48:54
Right.

Diane Foy 48:54
Is something going to happen?

Bif Naked 48:56
Yeah.

Diane Foy 48:57
It is like when you love animals, but.

Bif Naked 48:59
That is right. Yeah, I keep teasing Snake telling we are going to get a farm.

Diane Foy 49:06
Yeah.

Bif Naked 49:06
So I just have all the animals.

Diane Foy 49:08
That is all you need.

Bif Naked 49:09
That is right.

Diane Foy 49:10
I just read Olivia Newton John’s biography.

Bif Naked 49:12
Oh, how was it?

Diane Foy 49:13
It was good. And she is a huge animal lover.

Bif Naked 49:17
I see.

Diane Foy 49:18
She has heard green places like every horse, every dog every cat that ever needed a home, she is like, bring them over.

Bif Naked 49:28
Oh, that is amazing. Yes, exactly.

Diane Foy 49:32
There we have you know, anyone that cannot find a home, come on over.

Bif Naked 49:36
That is right.

Diane Foy 49:37
Yeah.

Bif Naked 49:38
That is right. Yeah. You never know. Life is long.

Diane Foy 49:41
Yeah. How was it when you were writing your memoir? I find it brave that you kind of put everything out there and explained everything. Was it hard for you to kind of put that out there into the world?

Bif Naked 49:54
Well, it was very edited. Yeah.

Diane Foy 49:58
All the racy stories would cut out of it, actually, no, I am kidding.

Bif Naked 50:02
Not all of them, but it was very heavily edited. And I think that that is probably a good thing in a way, you know, legal, legal departments it is what they are for. But I grew up in an era in the 80s and 90s probably the 80s. I came of age, when it was a different world. And you know, my little girlfriends and I were, we are hyper-sexualized little girls, basically, you know, and believe me, just go to your local high school today you will find exactly those same.

Diane Foy 50:39
Yeah.

Bif Naked 50:39
Sociology behaviors in in kids and children and now it is partly worse, partly better, but, you know, things things were just very different. So I had a bit of a different start. My history does involve being a runaway and some of the misadventures that happened. But at the same time, you know, I think that it was, but I just think that writing that stuff out because I had written songs about many of those experiences already, I assumed it would be easier than it was. With songwriting, I can be kind of vague, you know, even if I am writing a song about the sexual assault, I can somehow in shrouded in language, I can make it flowery. But when you write the memoir, at least when I wrote mine, yeah, it was, it was difficult to kind of really give a detailed reality. You know, of that lived experience even though I had thought I was past it or healed from those traumatic experiences. It is still kind of opened that up. I had no fear of people reading it. Until, my then boyfriend Snake who would go on to become a husband told me that his mother bought my book and was reading it. And I just said, Well, I just want you to know that your mother knows I fucked a pimp. And I still think it is funny. But Yeah, you know, and this is the same thing with the with the poetry book. Yeah, once it is out there, then I go, Oh, dear. Maybe I should have just, you know, been more vague, but I just have to kind of just let it go out into the world. I know that. You know, there are a lot of people who have more horrendous lived experience than I do. But for me to have the platform to be able to share. Honestly, some of these things that have occurred in my life I think is hopefully anyway will help other people feel like they can share their own story.

Diane Foy 52:56
Yeah, I liked how honest you are.

Bif Naked 52:59
Thank you.

Diane Foy 53:01
I read it a while ago. And then when I was to talk to you, I was like, I remember being uncomfortable reading it, but I do not remember why because I think I blocked it all out. And that is funny.

Bif Naked 53:12
So then I got to be start reading it again.

Diane Foy 53:14
Oh, that is why. Yeah. But it is so great that you put it out there and you. Yes, you were 12 years old. You were 13 years old. What happened? And you did not go into all the, how that made you feel it? It was just like,

Bif Naked 53:29
Right.

Diane Foy 53:29
This is what happened.

Bif Naked 53:30
That is right.

Diane Foy 53:31
And then this happened.

Bif Naked 53:32
That is right.

Diane Foy 53:33
I am curious to know, I assume women are very supportive of that you put it out there and they are like, thank you. I am curious what has been the reaction from men reading it?

Bif Naked 53:43
Oh, you know, not a lot of guys read it, to be honest with you. And I find that,

Diane Foy 53:49
Well that is unfortunate, because I always read books like yours and go I really wish more men would read this book and then you know, you kind of.

Bif Naked 53:56
I have gotten in hot water from women.

Diane Foy 54:00
Yeah.

Bif Naked 54:00
Frequently about my book, because they want me to go back into my youth. And because even though, you know, for us in the seventh grade or the eighth grade, you know, things were like, getting gang bang did a party, ultimately, you know, let us just explain to, you know, to the listener, you know, what we are referring to, ultimately, is anything on a spectrum, from a number of boys like French kissing with one girl at the party? Who is going No, no, don’t Hahaha, you know, it is in shrouded in this atmosphere. But ultimately, you know, really, we are talking about things that are against the law.

Diane Foy 54:44
Yeah.

Bif Naked 54:44
You know, this is actually sexual assault. This is actually about consent. And things that did not actually exist in our vocabulary. In 1986. Like, this just was not how it was. So girls Like us were forced to pick ourselves up, pick our reputations up off the ground and basically carry on, you know, into the eighth grade or that whatever it was, and kind of just soldier on. And we were forced to do that and, you know, go back to class and, and kind of, you know, deal with life and some of us were kind of able to kind of and a lot of people really were not in, you know, I think about it now in hindsight, and I think about, you know, this is my, my sister, I would be out for murder like I would What? Go back now, go back now find these men now. We are probably all married.

Diane Foy 55:42
Yeah.

Bif Naked 55:42
If we all have daughters of their own, go back now. They should be charged, you know, and that was a lot of what I heard from women. And I just thought, Okay, you know what, fair enough. That is how you feel. I respect that, but you cannot tell me how I have to feel. And you cannot tell me how I have to be with my trauma, you know, or that I am not allowed to get past it or that I am not allowed to, to look into other ways of thinking, you know, like forgiveness or like, you know, all these other avenues in my life that happen. So it did bring up a lot of different conversations for people.

Diane Foy 56:22
Yeah.

Bif Naked 56:23
And I just think,

Diane Foy 56:24
I think the conversation that has been happening last few years is that even if people do report it,

Bif Naked 56:30
Right.

Diane Foy 56:32
Like, you have put over the [ coals ] and you are still blamed for.

Bif Naked 56:35
Oh sure. Absolutely. It is a deterrent for people. Because you are still at a party.

Diane Foy 56:40
Yeah.

Bif Naked 56:41
Yes. Absolutely.

Diane Foy 56:42
And you went in that room. Or you did this or you did that.

Bif Naked 56:45
That is exactly correct and that still happens. It still happens and it still happens. I mean, you know, you can look at any precinct across North America and how they have to deal with sexual assault cases for women who are sex workers, for example. And I mean, that is a whole I’m sure you could do a whole show on the injustice and the variety of miscarriages of justice that happened. But yeah, that is part of this part of our society. And now, you know, it is very murky. And, you know, for a little while, it seemed like, there was a great empowerment that was happening with within feminism and within women standing up, and again, with the #metoo movement and it was amazing. It was really empowering for people. And then of course, like everything, you know, it gets diluted.

Diane Foy 57:48
And get back to normal.

Bif Naked 57:49
It gets misrepresented and then yeah, it is just just to keep this conversations going though I think are amazing and young people today do not generally put up with the same guff that we did.

Diane Foy 58:05
Yeah.

Bif Naked 58:05
When we were young. So I know for sure that there is a lot of progress that is still being made.

Diane Foy 58:10
Yeah, there was that expectation like, sometimes you described in the book that if someone was nice to you,

Bif Naked 58:17
That is right.

Diane Foy 58:18
You are like, Oh, well, I’ve got to please them.

Bif Naked 58:19
That is exactly correct.

Diane Foy 58:21
It is just like that thought process.

Bif Naked 58:23
Oh, sure. 100%. And, you know, and it goes back to the beginning of time.

Diane Foy 58:28
Yeah.

Bif Naked 58:29
You know, the dynamic between the sexes to begin with. But that can happen in any society. And yeah, in you know, in any gender. It is just good to talk about it.

Diane Foy 58:41
Yeah. Do you have any advice for young women entering the music industry, it is still kind of male-dominated.

Bif Naked 58:49
It really is. It really is. I think rock is for sure. Pop I think seems to be female dominated but the positions of power still seem to be men.

Diane Foy 59:01
Yeah.

Bif Naked 59:02
And so I think that, you know, it is a, you just really have to have an advocate around whether it is your parent, or your or your sibling or your best friend, or I was lucky enough to have the same manager from the age of 22 onward. You know, if you have an advocate that is at least able to stand up for you, when you are not comfortable, you know, it is just, it is always going to be daunting, I think in any business in the female goes into whether it is, I do not know, hospital administration, being a waitress, you know, whatever the case, rock and roll probably will always be a little worse. Because, you know, on one hand, you are expected to look like an Instagram star, you know, and take lots of pictures in your brassiere and on the other hand, you know, no one is allowed to touch you.

Diane Foy 59:58
Yeah.

Bif Naked 59:58
Really. That is the truth. They are just not. You know, so it is hard to, to navigate all that all the confusion and all the pressure. But if you do not feel like you can, you know, handle it by yourself and I do not mean handle it, but if you need to have an advocate with you take someone with you, who cares?

Diane Foy 1:00:22
Yeah.

Bif Naked 1:00:22
You know, or ask yourself, what would Cardi B do? You know, these girls are, you know, very confident we were not confident.

Diane Foy 1:00:32
Yeah.

Bif Naked 1:00:33
You know, when we were starting out in the music business, and I always just asked myself, you know, of course it is imaginary. I always would think, oh, Joan Jett, you know, what are these? They would not tolerate that promoter talking to them that way.

Diane Foy 1:00:46
Right.

Bif Naked 1:00:47
You know, so I think that you know, to have someone with you, will help you get brave if you are not brave enough.

Diane Foy 1:00:54
Yeah. And I think also setting boundaries like if you are a young girl and some producers like, yeah come meet me at midnight.

Bif Naked 1:01:01
They all say it.

Diane Foy 1:01:03
Come meet me at midnight.

Bif Naked 1:01:03
Sure.

Diane Foy 1:01:04
No.

Bif Naked 1:01:05
That is right.

Diane Foy 1:01:06
Let us have a breakfast meeting.

Bif Naked 1:01:07
That is exactly right. You are allowed to do that.

Diane Foy 1:01:09
Yeah. How do you stay so positive? You are very positive person.

Bif Naked 1:01:14
I do not know. I get asked that a lot. I don not know. I think life is funny.

Diane Foy 1:01:19
Yeah.

Bif Naked 1:01:19
I think no matter what happens. Yeah, we are just usually lucky to be able to like, still complete a thought, really, you know, because we are not guaranteed another day.

Diane Foy 1:01:33
Right.

Bif Naked 1:01:34
Ever. And even if you know a person is, I do not have to be religious or anything like that to believe in, you know, what I call the promise of a new day, which is that you know what, if you wake up tomorrow, you are probably going to feel better about whatever it is that is bothering you today. Even if it is for five minutes when you first wake up, you know, and just just having that knowledge that it can always be worse. Always helps as well.

Diane Foy 1:02:05
Right.

Bif Naked 1:02:05
You know, no matter what is happening to you, you know, there is someone who is just like, really in much worse condition than you.

Diane Foy 1:02:14
Yeah.

Bif Naked 1:02:15
Whether it is emotionally or, or what they are experiencing in their lives. And to be able to keep going and keep laughing, I think is, is part of being resilient. It will get you through anything in life, especially music business.

Diane Foy 1:02:30
Yeah. Yeah. And is there anything that you have no’t done yet that you are still wanting to do?

Bif Naked 1:02:35
Yes, a million things. Yeah. Yes. I want to join a roller derby team. And, but I mean, you know, that is just me talking because I do not actually want to touch me, or hit me. So I am the same. I am like, Can I just skate?

Diane Foy 1:02:55
No, but I would not be pushing anyone down. No, I really do not want anyone push me.

Bif Naked 1:02:59
No, you don’t. You do not want to have an elbow in the face.

Diane Foy 1:03:01
Can I just roller skate?

Bif Naked 1:03:02
That is right.

Diane Foy 1:03:03
Yeah.

Bif Naked 1:03:03
And so maybe it should just be roller skating. Right. But yeah, there is stuff like that. There is traveling things that I would love to do. I think that, you know, in this world-traveling really is the greatest thing you can ever do. It is hard. It is expensive. And I think that if I could, I would probably go to every city I have never been to. And that includes a lot of South America and a lot of Asia.

Diane Foy 1:03:29
Yeah.

Bif Naked 1:03:29
So they will take me probably my whole lifetime to get it all done. And I would like to go back to university one day.

Diane Foy 1:03:36
Oh, yeah? And study what?

Bif Naked 1:03:38
Probably medicine, really. Are you going to sciences, just because it is just something that for me would be like, outrageously interesting, because I have done the arts for so long. I do not think that I could ever complete it. I mean, you know, it is a lot of hard things for the brain to do. But I think it would definitely be fun.

Diane Foy 1:04:01
I love that Duff that guitar player, he went back to university in the height of Guns and Roses.

Bif Naked 1:04:07
Amazing.

Diane Foy 1:04:08
Now he is like a financial planner for musicians.

Bif Naked 1:04:09
I am not surprised.

Diane Foy 1:04:11
Perfect.

Bif Naked 1:04:12
Yes, not surprised.

Diane Foy 1:04:14
Yeah. Cool. So what is your WHY? That is my final question.

Bif Naked 1:04:18
What is my Why? Because it makes everybody happy.

Diane Foy 1:04:22
Yeah.

Bif Naked 1:04:23
That is the easy answer. And that is like to every question.

Diane Foy 1:04:26
Yeah.

Bif Naked 1:04:27
Absolutely.

Diane Foy 1:04:28
Yeah. Anything else you want to add?

Bif Naked 1:04:31
Support Toronto Cat Rescue everybody, and, support all programs that try and help community cats.

Diane Foy 1:04:41
Yeah.

Bif Naked 1:04:41
And go volunteer and foster, even if you might fail at the foster.

Diane Foy 1:04:47
I have not managed to foster and give them up yet.

Bif Naked 1:04:51
I think it is a good thing.

Diane Foy 1:04:53
I tried.

Bif Naked 1:04:54
That is right.

Diane Foy 1:04:55
But I gave him a good home.

Bif Naked 1:04:57
Perfect. That is all it matters.

Diane Foy 1:04:58
Yeah and so where can people find you online?

Bif Naked 1:05:02
So Bif Naked on Twitter, I think it is Bif Naked official on Instagram because, of course, Bif Naked was taken. I think it is Bif Naked official on Facebook also, or it might just be Bif Naked. I cannot remember because they would nott let me use naked for about five years. But I think now it is all, you know, solve itself. So just Google it, you will find.

Diane Foy 1:05:27
Yeah, you are not Joan Smith.

Bif Naked 1:05:30
I am somewhere in there.

Diane Foy 1:05:31
Yeah. Cool. Thank you so much for your time.

Bif Naked 1:05:34
Thank you for yours.